Social media portfolios of the future
Creator Conversation with Jared Kleinstein, Founder/CEO at "Fresh Tape Media" and "Gondola"
Welcome to “Creator Conversations,” a weekly feature on Paid Partnership where I interview a prominent creator, agent, marketer or industry professional to discuss wide-ranging topics from outreach to negotiation to content.
If you work in sports social media, there’s a good chance you’ve met Jared Kleinstein.
As the director of Fresh Tape Media (creative agency) and founder of Gondola (content attribution platform), Jared’s Denver-headquartered empire continues to grow and scale at an impressive rate.
While we’re usually defining “creator” as someone who makes serialized (often video) content for their own channels, Jared is invested in a slightly different version of the category: photographers, videographers, illustrators, etc. who shoot content for brands/teams/Leagues.
I often thought of myself as a high-energy person, until I met Jared. This man does not stop, buzzing around dreaming up the most creative concepts with his infectious spirit.
I linked with Jared for profound wisdom on:
Wildest ideas he’s ever pitched
How to maximize creator x athlete shoots
The future of portfolios for creators, social pros and beyond
And more!
Neil: First off, I’ve always been inspired by your energy, passion and creativity. Where does the spark come from?
Jared: I think the spark comes from a short attention span, an unreasonable belief that anything is possible. And when I say that, I'm not being like, “Woohoo, anything is possible,” but more so as somebody who has no true creative skill sets myself but knows so many talented creators that are able to create different things I could never fathom. I genuinely believe that in today's day and age, at least creatively, when it comes to software tools, editing tools and physical fabrication tools, there are very few ideas I could come up with or that somebody could come up with that couldn't actually be manifested in real life. I don't know where that unreasonable optimism comes from, but it's energized me for many years.
Neil: It's that exact optimism that I love. You're always pitching wild ideas to myself and folks across the industry. What's one concept you've been able to pull off recently, or what's one idea that you have out there in the ether that you're looking to accomplish?
Jared: For the last four years or so, mini mics have taken over—let's say three years—mini mics took over TikTok, Reels and everything else. I had this moment in January 2023 where I was like, “what if we go the opposite direction and do mega mics, an unreasonably large microphone?” That would be fun, just as a total alternate twist on the creativity of a mini mic. It has to have all the same functionality and be good audio quality. I thought that'd be fun, and maybe we should convince a couple big brands to use it. First Team USA did it, and now it's become Threads' default product offering at main events. There's an NBA Threads one that looks like a basketball for the mic head, an NFL Threads one, and a CFP Threads one that has a football as the top. It's hilarious to see something we thought was absurd actually built, and the tech behind it.
Neil: Amazing, particularly when all sports swim in the same stream. As soon as one team does something, everyone else wants to do it - But not you, my friend. Is there one idea you can share that didn't make it to the feeds recently?
Jared: Oh, my God. Something I've been pitching for years that I really want somebody to do is "Players vs. Puppies." I've always dreamed of a video series where major celebrities or big NFL and NBA players walk down the street with a puppy while being mic'd up. They can be interviewed on any topic in a hidden mic type of thing. But there's a counter at the bottom to show whether people first mention or notice the player or the puppy. So if it's LeBron and somebody goes, "Yo, what up, King," that's one point for LeBron. But if somebody goes, "Who's your puppy?" that's one point for the puppy. I just want to see who's more popular—players or puppies. I've pitched it for years but never been aggressive enough to get somebody to do it.
Neil: Similarly, I know you're always making content for your personal channels, maybe executing ideas that aren't feasible via brand outlets. I always love giving advice to students to make their own experience when applying for jobs. Curious as to the background and time, how you pump out these ideas on your own.
Jared: I'm convinced I'm going to lose all my memories in the next five years just because I don't sleep enough [laughter]. So in the meantime, I love capturing content. I admit that I don't capture the way some people at the NHL do on their iPhones, with thousands of pictures. I still have like 45,000 pictures that are just my personal pictures. Constantly recording the things around me helps me remember wonderful moments but also gives me the chance to capture something interesting. The stuff I've captured that's performed the best is the least labor-intensive. It's just like I noticed this thing, or my friends jumped off the side of a hot tub and fell underneath us to a porch. I just think capturing the world around me gives me chances for virality, and when something doesn't hit, I don't care because at least I didn't work too hard on it.
Neil: Not when you hung a photo of the Colorado Avalanche winning the Stanley Cup in the Louvre?
Jared: No, that was way too much work. The primary purpose was just like, I've always thought that whenever there's a daily tweet from somebody that says, "Put it in the Louvre," I was like, ah, what if somebody did it? It felt like half content plan, half Da Vinci Code, where I'm trying to sneak something into the Louvre. It felt mysterious and fun.
Neil: Switching to Fresh Tape Media, I know you have a network of creators you tap at any given time. What advice do you have for brands when trying to work with these types of creators—photo, video, Illustrator, etc.—other than hiring you all?
Jared: Pay fair day rates but understand there should be some negotiating. In corporate negotiations, it's acceptable to go back and forth, but for some reason, both brands and creators often think things are black and white. If I ask, "What's your rate?" and the creator says, "$10,000 a day," and you can't afford that, just saying, "Oh well, we can't afford it," is a dead end. I wish there were more back-and-forth. Always pay and compensate fairly, but also have some discussion. Setting reasonable expectations at the beginning about content usage is important. If you're not letting a creator publish on their personal channels, what can you give them? Whether it's credit on Gondola, a meaningful memento, or even swag—there are bad, cheap clothes, nice clothes, and then free clothes. If a creator has an $1,800 day rate and you're giving them a $25 hat they’ll love, why not?
Neil: Content ownership and distribution continue to grow in importance for creators, and it's a great conversation to have in advance.
Jared: We're in a unique state in the creator economy. Some creators with a following not only get paid to publish content on their own channels, but they’re encouraged to share it. Meanwhile, someone filming for a League’s page with 1,800 followers might be told by the League, "Not only can you not post it today, but you can't post it at all." Those two scenarios are vastly different in how personal and brand channels interact. It’s a weird time.
Neil: Is there any matrix or calculus you use for establishing fair rates?
Jared: No, it's a total mess right now. We have standardized day rates based on roles, markets, and needs. But when a last-second project has no other local creator, leverage shifts. It's about ensuring the client and creator have reasonable expectations—understanding when to sacrifice margin to get the right creator without overcharging the client.
Neil: Yeah, I find negotiations with the creators we're talking about much easier than serialized video creators, like capital “C” creators, because they have more experience pitching brands and negotiating rates. They seem to have a more standard rate card than agents in the larger creator economy.
Jared: That's the truth.
Neil: You've been on a lot of shoots with professional athletes, whether it's yourself or with creators. Any tips for getting the best results for creator/talent setups?
Jared: That's a great question. Setting them up for success is important. An environment they feel comfortable in right away makes them more open. Putting someone in front of a green screen isn't as welcoming as arriving on set and thinking, "Oh, wow, this is sick." Having buy-in from someone on their team or around them helps you feel like you have an advocate.
We joke that the difference between actors and athletes is they treat content requests the opposite way. An athlete may be told, "Hey, you gotta shoot this for this brand," and they say, "Okay, fine. What do I need to do?" A lot of athletes are super down for stuff now, more than they used to be, but the old-school mentality was, "Okay, fine, how much time?" Meanwhile, if you ask an actor, like at the SAG Awards a few years ago, they'd say, "I'd love to, where do you need me?" and their agent would say, "No, get backstage," and 30 seconds later, they're gone. It's the exact opposite agent-to-talent relationship.
Having advocates from their leaders or management helps. Knowing them in advance helps. You can't ask a goalie to do a scoring celebration unless they're one of the few goalies who have scored. You need to know your audience, know the creators, understand what makes them tick, and not push them too far. If you notice they're off, you may have to cut it. That's okay.
Neil: I know we're both big on bringing energy. Any tips for livening up the room? Often, people get nervous and stoic once big talent walks in.
Jared: Being nervous isn't bad. I'd rather someone be nervous around talent than jaded. I prefer someone who's worked in the NHL for 10 years and still gets excited to see Sidney Crosby, as long as they behave professionally.
To bring out the best in talent, start by talking about something other than work. Talk about the game, their life—something human. Before a shoot with José Altuve, we talked about coffee. It was just a normal conversation, and it made directing him feel natural.
Neil: Finding that connection is always important. Moving on to Gondola, can you provide a tweet-length review of the platform for those unfamiliar?
Jared: Gondola is the attribution layer for the social internet. We are the credit system. By giving creators the opportunity to take credit for their work, they can get analytics, build portfolios, and find opportunities.
Of course. It's an amazing tool. I use it to track my work and showcase it externally, as I would a portfolio, but only have live social links.
Neil: Where do you stand in comparison to competition like LinkedIn, Behance, or other portfolio tools?
Jared: There hasn't been a mainstream competitor that serves the primary role of adding credits to live social links publicly. Plenty of social analytics tools let you track brand engagement. Portfolio tools like Behance and Dribbble help creators brand themselves. LinkedIn is great for sharing experience. But nobody has done what we've done—public crediting and attribution for social content that powers a portfolio.
A few companies let you add links to content, but we’re still in a unique position. We thought we'd be IMDb for social, but a friend said, "Too small. If you do this right, you're LinkedIn because every creator deserves a more visual resume than LinkedIn offers."
Light bulb moment.
Neil: Fascinating. Search and discovery are major draws of the platform. What's the ideal workflow? Does a brand find a creator, or is there a marketplace functionality?
Jared: We're excited that so many leagues, teams, and brands use Gondola to find creators. Now, we're adding features to level it up—job posts, custom lists, and hiring tools. Soon, you'll see direct hiring and payments built into the platform. Inside scoop.
Neil: Do you think creators will use the platform? Some don't even reply to emails, let alone log into a portal.
Jared: Most of our stuff goes to their email. We don’t have internal messaging because we want people to respond. Most two-sided marketplaces depend on both sides. A creator won’t join if they don’t think they’ll get brand opportunities, and a brand won’t use it if they don’t think there’s a good enough creator base.
Our approach is different. If creators use it to track content and build a portfolio regardless of jobs, the marketplace will always be available for brands. That keeps momentum going on both sides.
Neil: Love that pitch. Most creators won’t join unless there’s immediate value, and you’ve solved that.
Jared: I'm nostalgia-driven, but nostalgia has a purpose. If someone asks, "What have you done for finals set designs in the past for the Stanley Cup?" another agency might check their website for case studies or dig through Google Drive. With Gondola, I type "Stanley Cup" and find it instantly. I still use Gondola functionally all the time.
Neil: To wrap up—Twitter Sports Summit is gone, and you stepped up with the Gondola Sports Summit. What's your biggest takeaway? Should more brands host experiential activations like this focused on education?
Jared: Events are terrible, and I can't wait to do it every year for the rest of my life [laughter]. Planning is stressful—people wait until the last week to buy tickets—but nothing is more rewarding than turning digital relationships into real ones.
Conference attendance is usually limited to VPs and higher, which attracts sponsors but excludes social managers and producers. If you create something valuable for them, employers will support it, and it can become an annual event. Beyond sports, I see potential for a Gondola TV and entertainment summit next year.
Neil: 100%. Horizontal networking is key. People ask me, "How do I get this job?" I tell them, talk to your peers—fellow coordinators, fellow sales associates. In five years, they’ll be directors, and so will you.
